Glad to hear it Beth, and thank you. It was not easy to write. It was not easy to research. I am so glad I did it, though and that it is out there as something useful for others.
Peggy- I know you’re swamped right now, but I just want to say THANK YOU for bringing this terrifying trend to wider attention. I have been very worried about the impact of porn as a serious and totally under-appreciated public health hazard for a long time. So GRATEFUL to you. I know this must have been absolutely awful to report. Thanks for doing this major public service.
Great article Peggy. There is a great line from the 1960s musical, The Fantasticks, in which the parents complain "Why do the kids put beans in their ears?" The reply is, "Because we said no." I guess every new cohort of kids has to push the boundary of what is taboo by experimentation. Hopefully your article will raise awareness of why this particular "experiment" is dangerous.
I sure hope so. As an aside, I remember seeing the fantastics in the Village the night before my older brother got married a billion jillion years ago.....
My kid says “yes, that’s a thing” and I said “you know that is up there with eating Tide pods and intravenous bleach, right?” I hope I got my point across. Wow! Looking forward to the article (sort of). Brave of you to write it!
As a woman in her twenties -- I wish this article was not paywalled. This should be a PSA. It is VERY widespread and there is absolutely messaging that there is a "safe" way and an "unsafe" way. If parents read this, I'd like to reiterate: Yes, your kid!
Thank you so much for posting this Miranda. It's so important to hear your voice. Shoot. I hate that it's behind a paywall (though also kind of get it--we journos are already so underpaid. If you email me (peggyorenstein@comcast.net) I will try to cut and paste it into an email when I have a minute, though I'm having a crazy time from now until the end of the week.
I was so thrilled to see you wrote about this Peggy. It’s shocking how mainstream it’s become and kids don’t understand the dangers. How great it’ll be in print and prominent!
It's not ageism. The statistics are very clear about who is more likely to be engaging in this behavior. Certainly there are people of all ages to a degree but the steep and rapid normalization among the younger cohort in the research is stunning (you can look up Herbenick's research if you want). While parents may have heard of sexual asphyxiation (there was a trend among men in masturbation at one point which dropped after highly publicized deaths) for the most part they are not typically attuned to the popular culture and social media algorithms stoking this trend, possibly not to the porn, usually not to what young people are communicating to one another about sexual scripts. As an over-thirty person who actually reports on these thigns it didn't even hit my radar until 2020, when the trend startd to really go mainstream. Based on the responses to the piece, I'd say this is news to most.
Hi Peggy, I'm a psychologist in private practice in Portland, OR, and about 6 years ago I had a patient who engaged in what she referred to as "breath play." I was disturbed when she explained this choking practice done by her husband, and we discussed it in detail. She was in her mid-30s, and presented this as something cool. Then last year I watched the TV series Ramy on Hulu, which portrayed in one episode a woman he'd just met who demanded that he choke her while they were having sex in the back seat of a car. He refused and she got out and left. The fact that the practice is frequent enough that it was portrayed in this TV show with a woman requesting it, verifies everything you're saying and I'm so glad you wrote this article. I hope parents and therapists become more aware of this and address it with teens and young women. thank you for writing it. Bonnie Comfort
Well, a lot of research and reporting goes into a story like this. You can start by googling Debra Herbenick and/or Keisuke Kawata and you can minimally get access to the abstracts for their papers and you will find some online talks by Debby probably. You can also do research on the overall impact and mechanics of strangulation pretty readily--there is robust academic research on that--since the reason for it does not affect the impact. You can look up people like Gael Strack and Bill Smock who focus on domestic violence but that will help you understand how strangulation works (Smock in particular is an expert on how quickly strangulation has an impact, he testified at the trial of George FLoyd's killer). BBC5 Live Women's Poll 2019 included exprience of sexual strangulation if you want to see the rates there. Those would be some easily accessible places to start.
Wondering if there are any organizations that support teen sexual edcation that you believe have a great track record for informing/educating teens on this and other subjects? I have shared your article with all my friends and family (male and female), and teen-age nieces and nephews. But, I have a 2 yo girl and yes, while your article was terrifying to read, it has me wondering what else I can do.
Thank you for sounding the fog horn on the need for updated sexuality education in today's culture -- so much gratitude for your courage, honesty and insights! Your work makes a difference❤️
Hi Peggy, I read your important piece. I’m so glad the NYT ran this. When you mention we should talk to our teens about this, what are we supposed to convey? To not ever participate in this, or to be aware of its dangers, or something else? I need help on the best messaging!
Debby offers some language in the piece and I think, given that I don't know you or your child, her book is a great place to start. Ideally this is contextualized in a larger discussion you've been having for quite some time where the goal is safe, consensual, mutually pleasurable sexual experiences conducted with kindness and care (whether they last 20 minutes or 50 years), about communication gendered power dynamics etc. Choking is a hard place to enter a conversation about sex. But yes, it is better to explain that this is a behavior that is unsafe, period, and there are other ways to explore "adventurousness" if that is what they are after, that don't risk their physical and mental health (I think the adverse mental health potential will land most strongly with young people who already have such high rates of anxiety and depression). That addresses of the why not to say yes to being the recipient or why not to do it to someone. Having a discussion about why, especially in a heterosexual encounter or partnership, it can be hard for a young person to say no in those situations and what language you might use to do so is also super important and that's one of the things I think Debby's book and Shafia's book do very well, too. I like her idea of saying some version of "“By the way, I’m not comfortable with” — choking, or other escalating behaviors — “so please don’t do it/don’t ask me to do it to you.” Bonus for adding what you are into. That is not a big deal conversation but it establishes a boundary. That's a start....
Thank you! Will get Debbie’s book! My daughter is just ten so not broaching this yet, but I definitely want to be prepared and need to start figuring out inroads to these eventual conversations which …are just mind boggling.
Ah. She is little. I also recommend “From Diapers to Dating,” though it is an older book, it helpful developmentally. And start looking at amaze.org. Great for middle schoolers and their parents. And will also help you bring up that someone might show her something or she might accidentally come across images of people who are naked and/or are doing various things and talk about how she won’t get in trouble and you want her to feel it’s totally fine to tell you so you can talk about it together. Amaze helps very much with that convo. There are further resources on my web site in the resources tab.
I have two daughters in their early twenties. Thank you for writing about this.
Hard, but had to. I want better for them.
I was completely unaware of this. I will be asking my teenage daughter about this. Thank you, Peggy, for writing about the difficult topics.
Glad to hear it Beth, and thank you. It was not easy to write. It was not easy to research. I am so glad I did it, though and that it is out there as something useful for others.
Peggy- I know you’re swamped right now, but I just want to say THANK YOU for bringing this terrifying trend to wider attention. I have been very worried about the impact of porn as a serious and totally under-appreciated public health hazard for a long time. So GRATEFUL to you. I know this must have been absolutely awful to report. Thanks for doing this major public service.
Thank you so much! yes, it was not easy but very gratifying. And while yes, porn is an issue, the mainstream and social media have a lot to answer to!
Absolutely. And our policy makers, for being so behind on dealing with these realities.
I agree that was a shocking piece in the NYT. Sounds awful and dangerous. Parents of teens and college kids beware.
Great article Peggy. There is a great line from the 1960s musical, The Fantasticks, in which the parents complain "Why do the kids put beans in their ears?" The reply is, "Because we said no." I guess every new cohort of kids has to push the boundary of what is taboo by experimentation. Hopefully your article will raise awareness of why this particular "experiment" is dangerous.
I sure hope so. As an aside, I remember seeing the fantastics in the Village the night before my older brother got married a billion jillion years ago.....
My kid says “yes, that’s a thing” and I said “you know that is up there with eating Tide pods and intravenous bleach, right?” I hope I got my point across. Wow! Looking forward to the article (sort of). Brave of you to write it!
That's funny. If I'd thought of that I would've put it in. Eating Tide pods???? I guess they look tasty.
It was a hard piece to live with while I was doing it. But the feedback has been tremendous and it's been SUPER widely read so it is very gratifying.
As a woman in her twenties -- I wish this article was not paywalled. This should be a PSA. It is VERY widespread and there is absolutely messaging that there is a "safe" way and an "unsafe" way. If parents read this, I'd like to reiterate: Yes, your kid!
Thank you so much for posting this Miranda. It's so important to hear your voice. Shoot. I hate that it's behind a paywall (though also kind of get it--we journos are already so underpaid. If you email me (peggyorenstein@comcast.net) I will try to cut and paste it into an email when I have a minute, though I'm having a crazy time from now until the end of the week.
I may or may not have got around the paywall, I just wish it was more accessible to the masses! Thank you for writing this, I so appreciate it
I was so thrilled to see you wrote about this Peggy. It’s shocking how mainstream it’s become and kids don’t understand the dangers. How great it’ll be in print and prominent!
Fairly sure there are people over 30 who are aware of this... careful with the casual and unnecessary ageism please...
It's not ageism. The statistics are very clear about who is more likely to be engaging in this behavior. Certainly there are people of all ages to a degree but the steep and rapid normalization among the younger cohort in the research is stunning (you can look up Herbenick's research if you want). While parents may have heard of sexual asphyxiation (there was a trend among men in masturbation at one point which dropped after highly publicized deaths) for the most part they are not typically attuned to the popular culture and social media algorithms stoking this trend, possibly not to the porn, usually not to what young people are communicating to one another about sexual scripts. As an over-thirty person who actually reports on these thigns it didn't even hit my radar until 2020, when the trend startd to really go mainstream. Based on the responses to the piece, I'd say this is news to most.
Hi Peggy, I'm a psychologist in private practice in Portland, OR, and about 6 years ago I had a patient who engaged in what she referred to as "breath play." I was disturbed when she explained this choking practice done by her husband, and we discussed it in detail. She was in her mid-30s, and presented this as something cool. Then last year I watched the TV series Ramy on Hulu, which portrayed in one episode a woman he'd just met who demanded that he choke her while they were having sex in the back seat of a car. He refused and she got out and left. The fact that the practice is frequent enough that it was portrayed in this TV show with a woman requesting it, verifies everything you're saying and I'm so glad you wrote this article. I hope parents and therapists become more aware of this and address it with teens and young women. thank you for writing it. Bonnie Comfort
Thank you for your comment, Bonnie. It means so much for me to hear from you!
Is the data from the research available anywhere?
Well, a lot of research and reporting goes into a story like this. You can start by googling Debra Herbenick and/or Keisuke Kawata and you can minimally get access to the abstracts for their papers and you will find some online talks by Debby probably. You can also do research on the overall impact and mechanics of strangulation pretty readily--there is robust academic research on that--since the reason for it does not affect the impact. You can look up people like Gael Strack and Bill Smock who focus on domestic violence but that will help you understand how strangulation works (Smock in particular is an expert on how quickly strangulation has an impact, he testified at the trial of George FLoyd's killer). BBC5 Live Women's Poll 2019 included exprience of sexual strangulation if you want to see the rates there. Those would be some easily accessible places to start.
Wondering if there are any organizations that support teen sexual edcation that you believe have a great track record for informing/educating teens on this and other subjects? I have shared your article with all my friends and family (male and female), and teen-age nieces and nephews. But, I have a 2 yo girl and yes, while your article was terrifying to read, it has me wondering what else I can do.
Thank you for sounding the fog horn on the need for updated sexuality education in today's culture -- so much gratitude for your courage, honesty and insights! Your work makes a difference❤️
Hi Peggy, I read your important piece. I’m so glad the NYT ran this. When you mention we should talk to our teens about this, what are we supposed to convey? To not ever participate in this, or to be aware of its dangers, or something else? I need help on the best messaging!
Debby offers some language in the piece and I think, given that I don't know you or your child, her book is a great place to start. Ideally this is contextualized in a larger discussion you've been having for quite some time where the goal is safe, consensual, mutually pleasurable sexual experiences conducted with kindness and care (whether they last 20 minutes or 50 years), about communication gendered power dynamics etc. Choking is a hard place to enter a conversation about sex. But yes, it is better to explain that this is a behavior that is unsafe, period, and there are other ways to explore "adventurousness" if that is what they are after, that don't risk their physical and mental health (I think the adverse mental health potential will land most strongly with young people who already have such high rates of anxiety and depression). That addresses of the why not to say yes to being the recipient or why not to do it to someone. Having a discussion about why, especially in a heterosexual encounter or partnership, it can be hard for a young person to say no in those situations and what language you might use to do so is also super important and that's one of the things I think Debby's book and Shafia's book do very well, too. I like her idea of saying some version of "“By the way, I’m not comfortable with” — choking, or other escalating behaviors — “so please don’t do it/don’t ask me to do it to you.” Bonus for adding what you are into. That is not a big deal conversation but it establishes a boundary. That's a start....
Thank you! Will get Debbie’s book! My daughter is just ten so not broaching this yet, but I definitely want to be prepared and need to start figuring out inroads to these eventual conversations which …are just mind boggling.
Ah. She is little. I also recommend “From Diapers to Dating,” though it is an older book, it helpful developmentally. And start looking at amaze.org. Great for middle schoolers and their parents. And will also help you bring up that someone might show her something or she might accidentally come across images of people who are naked and/or are doing various things and talk about how she won’t get in trouble and you want her to feel it’s totally fine to tell you so you can talk about it together. Amaze helps very much with that convo. There are further resources on my web site in the resources tab.
Thank you!
another vote for Amaze.org or Amaze Jr.!
My son is 10. We've watched many videoa together & I use Amaze to supplement teaching sex ed to 5th graders. Age-appropriate & easy to use.